Livewire to get its own show.

[Fatfatboy]

News has it that the Livewire will be its own brand.
Harley plans to release them as Livewire brand in lieu of a Harley Davidson Livewire.

Article states that they will get their own showroom and every schtuff. Starting in California, of course, and in Cheeseland.

https://www.engadget.com/amp/harley-davidson-livewire-electric-motorcycle-brand-182501586.html

It will be interesting to see if this brings in more sales.
Part of me thinks it will get the younger folks to walk in a Livewire store that wouldn’t go into a Harley shop.

Part of me thinks there will be some Livewire salesman playing a lot of solitaire.

[motogrady]

Sounds like Buell revisited.  

Was watching some Netflix, or HBO series last month with Donna.  

We sometimes find a good one, Ad Men, Suits, Vinyl, whatever, and binge on them.
It's common to look at the clock and say" it's 4am!  I got a job to do tomorrow!  We gotta go to bed!"

Well, this last one, there was this HD ad on. Over and over and over and over.  
A woman riding across the desert or something, geared to bring in the fairer sex into riding.

"You know", I started off, " They have the effing answer. It's already built.  They keep on doing this feel good stuff, and it's just not delivering what they need. What they need to do is take that Livewire and make it cool.  They need to help the whole electric movement and just, make quiet cool.  The new generation, well, some of them, they want their own thing.  An ad campaign showing a guy sneaking up to his girlfriends house, her climbing out the window at 2am, and the both of them riding off, soundlessly, into the night, smirking and laughing.  2 cops following a guy and loseing him in the city streets because " I don't know where he went he's not making any noise!".  Maybe show a guy kicking an old shovel, sweating, in front of a bar, and this millennial walks out, turns a switch and drives off, silently, smiling.  They gotta make it theirs.  They gotta make quiet cool.  It's the only way to bring those, I dunno what you'd call them, outsiders, into the fold.  It's right there, but what do they do?  They go after the girls, like there's this huge, untapped market of them, just waiting for someone to tell them it's their time to ride.
I tell you, I wonder sometimes, do they just sit up there and just get high? You know what I mean?"

Glancing sideways, I noticed Donna staring at me, with this blank look, like, WTF are you talking about?

[motogrady]

Could't help it guys......

https://youtu.be/acvzXDa_5gQ

[oldironnow]

Thanks for the intro vid.

Loved the tale of the WTF musings.

Back in the days, I always wanted to open a Buell only store. Felt it would've worked. Locate all of them near the curvy bits of the world.

The Livewire store makes sense.

The Livewire and Shovelhead ad? They need to meet at a stop light and when they fist bump between their machines, a little spark needs to jump that gap.

[Fatfatboy]

Harley needs to pop in here for advertising ideas.

[oldironnow]

It gets into some economics math of where it came from and why it has been born in such a way.
Price/Pound is new to me.

https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/livewire-announces-new-s2-del-mar-pricing-and-release-dates/

[Mad4TheCrest]

The DelMar would be a fun urban runner, except it doesn't seem to have any onboard storage and it costs about 2-3K too much for what you get. It may not compete well against ICE engined alternatives or the coming wave of cheaper large eBikes like the Fuel Fflow (if they ever arrive).

[Fatfatboy]

Mad4TheCrest wrote

or the coming wave of cheaper large eBikes like the Fuel Fflow (if they ever arrive).

That’s the issue. We see plenty of internet info pop up about these better choices but don’t see any physical bikes. At least out here in the Midwest.
Right now I can touch, sit on and buy a Livewire for $20,000.00 at the big box Harley shop.

Where do all these pop ups end up? I’ve not seen a single one. It’s either the Zero or the Livewire around here.
Or there’s always the China cheapo’s from Amazon that will end up in the dumpster.

Do you see these pop ups on the left coast?

[oldironnow]

Most of what I see are Zeros and the occasional OG Livewire.

The Fuel Fllow looks to have that Buell short wheelbase/steep rake look about it, which makes me feel queasy.





Their website says it's designed and 'assembled' here - much like the Zero i would guess and also Santa Cruz Bikes, for a fact.

The Fllow motor is in the wheel - can we talk about unsprung weight?

The "Magnesium alloy monocoque battery pack (is a) predominant structural element of the chassis." - Pothole fatigue?

But they feel they're building them in a modular way, so as to offer upgrades.


https://prelaunch.com/projects/fuell-fllow-fllow-ride-into-the-future


.

[Mad4TheCrest]

As an urban commuter/ errand runner the Fflows specs are pretty superb - 150 city mile range (max), 50 liters of storage - safety features, etc.. If Fuell can actually produce a real bike With those advertised features and for a price around the 11k they are saying, then it could be a very good and practical machine, if odd looking. Trouble is, they are going through some 'pre launch' nonsense where they are hoping to determine the interest in this bike. If they don't get a sufficient reaction it might never be built; if they do get a great reaction it STILL might not get built because the next phase would be crowdfunding, like they are doing with their Fluid eBikes on indiegogo. So, as you guys have mentioned, even though I think things like the Fflow are a threat to the DelMar's market, that threat may not materialize for years yet, if ever. Livewire could make sure the threat materializes if they would price a reasonably spec'd version of the DelMar sound that 10-12k mark.

[Fatfatboy]

“Pre-launch nonsense “ is perfectly described.
Doesn’t inspire confidence to me.
Maybe they should hit that Shark Tank show where people give up part of their ownership for dollars.

[hacksaw]

Maybe Buell can go fk himself . I can’t believe people still pay any attention to this egotistical con artist . Then again Americans voted for Biden . Some maybe even twice.

[Mad4TheCrest]

hacksaw wrote

Maybe Buell can go fk himself . I can’t believe people still pay any attention to this egotistical con artist . Then again Americans voted for Biden . Some maybe even twice.

Fk Buell? I say Fk Politics! Keep them out of bike discussions fer crissakes 😡

As for the man Erik Buell, I don't now and never did see him as a con artist, just an enthusiast engineer and dedicated race fanatic with a poor (i.e., disastrous) business acumen,  who produced some very cool bikes during his career, even if they never were fully accepted by the mainstream.

[postscript: the most enjoyable test ride I have ever had was the one I had on a Buell CityX - what a laugh riot!]

[grado]

Mad4TheCrest wrote

hacksaw wrote

Maybe Buell can go fk himself . I can’t believe people still pay any attention to this egotistical con artist . Then again Americans voted for Biden . Some maybe even twice.

Fk Buell? I say Fk Politics! Keep them out of bike discussions fer crissakes 😡

As for the man Erik Buell, I don't now and never did see him as a con artist, just an enthusiast engineer and dedicated race fanatic with a poor (i.e., disastrous) business acumen,  who produced some very cool bikes during his career, even if they never were fully accepted by the mainstream.

[postscript: the most enjoyable test ride I have ever had was the one I had on a Buell CityX - what a laugh riot!]

I dunno.  
I appreciate the open mind, the thinking outside of the box
mentality. I really do.

But.

Imho he suffers the disease of engineeritis.
Lost is the fine art of practicality.
It’s great having a lot of that cutting edge stuff.
Thing is tho, first off, you gotta make a profit.
Without that…..there is nothing.
It’s like that is lost on the guy.

Case in point, his last models.
The road racers.
If he just would have made them, cc wise, able to compete in DORNA and AMA events,
mainstream stuff.
With a Team Buell out there, running WSB and AMA events,
we might have had a truly American made sport bike.
They would have sold.  A lot of them.

But no, he goes off with a motor that didn’t fit any class,
and tries making it by selling only to club racers.
WTF?

He was so close.

Kinda pisses me off really……

[Fatfatboy]

Politics sux. Motorcycles rule.

[Mad4TheCrest]

Buell's last Superbike, the EBR1190RS was homogated for WSBK and did race WSBK for part of a season before Hero pulled the financial plug (1198cc twins were allowed). I believe it also raced in America too.

For a couple of years there you could buy an 1190RS (at $40k) and the cheaper follow-up 1190RX was under $20k. Theoretically you can still get one through the revived "Buell" brand from Liquid Asset Partners.

[hacksaw]

not politics .
but one cant live in a vacuum.
you think interest rates or property taxes have nothing to do with politics AND motorcycles?
insurance rates based on living in poorly managed cities isnt political?
helmet laws? EPA? gas prices?

all i mentioned was egotistical con men.

at least Buell as far as i know hasn't disavowed a grand
child. so the comparison to Buell likely wasnt fair to Buell.
sorry Eric.

[grado]

Mad4TheCrest wrote

Buell's last Superbike, the EBR1190RS was homogated for WSBK and did race WSBK for part of a season before Hero pulled the financial plug (1198cc twins were allowed). I believe it also raced in America too.

For a couple of years there you could buy an 1190RS (at $40k) and the cheaper follow-up 1190RX was under $20k. Theoretically you can still get one through the revived "Buell" brand from Liquid Asset Partners.

I think all Liquid Partner’s did was build a few off spare parts.

That’s another whole story.
Might have been better if the Light Fixture guy got Buell.
At least he made stuff.

I dunno.  

A 600, and a 900, run ‘em and sell ‘em to the masses.
That’s what I think anyway.

[grado]

Is that beautiful or what.

[oldironnow]

grado wrote

Is that beautiful or what.

That's a great angle. ^

He needed a partner who would've known how to say 'no'.

Like Grado says, a person who understood the market.

I live with a Buell.

It's quirky to ride, and precise and difficult to work on... It could've been so much more by adding four inches to the wheelbase, a normal rake, and adding a few pounds (perhaps steel wheel bearing tubes instead of aluminum foil tubes that crush if one exceeds the axle torque range of 49-51 ftlbs....)  ... The front end off of Gixxer.... Fine thread fasteners instead of coarse thread EVERYWHERE.

"ERIC ! Just build me an R6 with XB engine ! No one's ridden an RS250 ! Your market's been riding Z1s, Midnight Specials and Ducatis and Super Glides !  ... JUST DO IT !"  

(Unspoken words by an un-hired partner, circa 1989)