MECUM VEGAS JAN 26-31

[oldironnow]

Just looking at the display bike gets me thinking.

The legend and your source say both bikes were 'transformed in a mere few days of nonstop building.'

How does a person rake a frame and get it nickel-plated in days? Was turn around that fast in 1960s industrial L.A.?

Was that frame available in the aftermarket at the time?

[motogrady]

oldironnow wrote

Just looking at the display bike gets me thinking.

The legend and your source say both bikes were 'transformed in a mere few days of nonstop building.'

How does a person rake a frame and get it nickel-plated in days? Was turn around that fast in 1960s industrial L.A.?

Was that frame available in the aftermarket at the time?

Got me. The, "in a few days" seemed a stretch to me also.  
I looked around, researched it a bit a few days ago.
You read 6 different articles, you get 6 different, but similar stories.  

One states all 4 bikes were just put in a storage complex, the ones u rent when you have a bunch of stuff you wanna keep, with some other misc things. And that after a month or so, someone noticed
the lock was off.   And the bikes were gone.

Only thing the guy I know says is for sure, is that he could have bought one of the Billy bikes off Hopper a few years after the fact, for 6k.  He still had it.  That a few guys talked him out of it, and he bought
12k worth of HD stuff from a shop that was closing up instead.  
If so, that was a pretty big miscalculation, to say the least.  

[Allred]

Just been checking out the bikes in the upcoming Mecum 'Vegas Auction, and looking at a blue Honda CB77 I couldn't help but be flashed back to the 60s and the Japanese invasion.

The British had ruled the world market for decades and things had become a little staid, to put it mildly. Okay, so the very first Japanese machines were a little strange looking, with their pressed steel frames and square visual design, but they were a huge leap engineering-wise, and their "strangeness" didn't last long, within a couple of years they had adapted their look to one of sleek, modern design with performance to match.

The CB72/77 Super Hawk/Dream series (They were CB72 Dreams in Europe and CB77 Hawks over here) became the vanguard 4-stroke 250cc to compete with the British offerings, which at the time were the 250 BSA C15, the 250 Royal Enfield Crusader and the Matchless/AJS 250 G2s & 14s.

The Honda CB72 was an overhead camshaft twin cylinder, had twin carburetors, adjustable footpegs, an electric start, 12v electrics, a 5-speed gearbox, twin-leading shoe brakes front and rear, a tachometer, twin mirrors and an actual ignition key.

The BSA C15SS (after 38 years of development) had none of the above and was a pushrod, single cylinder, 4 speed motorcycle.

The same comparison was true of the Japanese 250cc two strokes, the Yamaha YDS3s and Suzuki T20s were worlds apart from the crude British offerings from Ariel and Villiers.

It was just astounding the difference between the two types of machinery, one type looked like a left-over from the industrial revolution (which they were), and the others looked like they had just been unloaded from a recently landed spaceship!  


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[Allred]

So this January auction has been moved to April?????????

https://www.mecum.com/auctions/las-vegas-motorcycle-2021/lots/motorcycles/05/01/

 A rhetorical question I guess............

https://monthly.mecum.com/2020/05/06/covid-19-updates/

[Fatfatboy]

They were kind enough to send me an email notifying me that I had to wait until April to blow some money on more bikes I don’t need

[Fatfatboy]

Allred wrote

It was just astounding the difference between the two types of machinery, one type looked like a left-over from the industrial revolution (which they were), and the others looked like they had just been unloaded from a recently landed spaceship!  


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True, but one had the the race inspired OIF design giving one to think they were on a race bike while the other transported the nicest people.

[Allred]

The current owners of Captain America were probably very disappointed in the $30,000 bid for the fabled machine.





The '53 Vincent Black Lightning fell short of its estimate at a high bid of $400,000





Lots of money being spent of older Harleys and Indians though, many, many selling in the $100,000 plus range. This '07 strap tank sold at $297,000





This Crocker didn't meet its reserve with a high bid of $400,000.



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[motogrady]

Thx for putting those up Allred.  Been thinking about that auction for awhile now.  

To me, all the low prices reflect the anxiety of the world in general, at this point in time.
I mean, even those guys with a few mil in the bank must be thinking about maybe watching their pennies until things open up a bit.

The Capt America bike, a few others, eh, as investments you can say they really weren't worth it.

But that Crocker, that Vincent, they should have gone for a lot more than what the were reserved for.
Those imo were solid investments.

Hey, maybe now is the time to jump in if one wants to invest.  

Buy when it's gloom and doom time, for cheap,
And sell for big when the Sun is shining.

I think that's how it goes, anyway.

[Allred]

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Yes, I was a little surprised how the bikes in the low end of the market seem to have stood still, or even dropped in price.

Your "regular" collectible Japanese bike seems to have dropped in value if anything, although there was a 1970 Sandcast CB750 that went for $33,000, but it was a mint restoration.

But you can pick up a really, really, nice, original, low mileage OJMC, or one that has had a lot of time and money spent on a restoration for $2K-$5K...............basically daily driver bikes.  There must be many folks who lost money in the auction.





I was surprised how many HDs and Indians sold in the $100,000-$200,000 range, like this '36 EL which went for $159,500.





$9,350 seems like this '57 G80 Matchless sold well, but that may be becasue I can remember when such things could be bought all day long for $200 bucks.





And the G80 Matchless makes this Trident look like a bargain at $14,300!






Several 650cc A65 BSAs went for $3K-$5K, but none were close to mint condition. This '61 A10 Super Rocket went for $12,100, and I think it was well bought, I'm betting the previous owner had more than that in time and money invested in it.

I guess we also have to take into account the "Covid Factor". Many people have had their livelihood severely affected, if not completely taken away from them, and many others are wary of the travel, hotel, and attendance factors which may keep them away from the auction.


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[Fatfatboy]

Was the Captain America bike an original or a copy?

[motogrady]

Nice summery my friend Allred. Thanks.  
The British Tripples seem to be doing good!

[motogrady]

Nobody knows.

The I think it is and might be but im not sure bike.

[Allred]

Fatfatboy wrote

Was the Captain America bike an original or a copy?

It was touted as the "real deal", but there is so much rumor, fog, haze and controversy regarding the Easy Rider bikes that I think buyers have become nervous.

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[oldironnow]

IMO,
Everything about the power train of the Mecum Capn' Am' bike says replica.

Compare the everything below the base gaskets to the output sprocket.

Even the fuel tank is wrong.




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[Allred]

oldironnow wrote

 IMO, Everything about the power train of the Mecum Capn' Am' bike says replica. Compare the everything below the base gaskets to the output sprocket. Even the fuel tank is wrong.

Side by side they are definitely two completely different bikes..........

Here's more on the saga.....
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2014/10/21/captain-america-chopper-from-easy-rider-sells-for-record-setting-1-35-million


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[Fatfatboy]

I think I remember seeing this copy before. Lots of differences between the original.
Front brake, front fender, speedo, double cable throttle and even the rake looks to be different.

I’m sure it rides better than the original. With it being a panhead chopper I say it’s worth the $30k if it’s a runner.

Personally I think I’d rather pay $30k for a Billy bike.

[Fatfatboy]

Another “Original” Captain America bike heading to auction.
Supposedly this is one ridden by Mr. Fonda in the making of the movie.

This one at least looks more original than the one at Mecum auction.





This one goes up at a Dan Kruse auction.

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/peter-fonda-legendary-harley-chopper-180000923.html

[Allred]

Fatfatboy wrote

Another “Original” Captain America bike heading to auction. This one at least looks more original than the one at Mecum auction.

Does look much more authentic!

Will be interesting to see what it fetches.

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[oldironnow]

MUCH closer, but I'm noticing differences in the exhaust silencers, silencer bracketry, maybe the taillight, the kicker.

In fact, the entire exhaust system has a similar, but totally different look.

The stars on the tank are not the same.

Is it an artifact of the photograph, or are the front wheel bearings toast?

The helmet looks like it has patina.

[Allred]

oldironnow wrote

MUCH closer, but I'm noticing differences in the exhaust silencers, silencer bracketry, maybe the taillight, the kicker. In fact, the entire exhaust system has a similar, but totally different look.The stars on the tank are not the same.Is it an artifact of the photograph, or are the front wheel bearings toast? The helmet looks like it has patina.

Yes, definitely some "spot the differences" there to make you question the authenticity.

The later pic is taken with the bike at a much more upright angle, and with a somewhat "fish-eyed" lens (hence the collapsed look of the front hub) that it makes it difficult to discern whether some "differences" are truly different or not. The exhaust look to take a different angle, but after much studying on the two I'm not sure if that isn't a result of the different camera/bike angle, but somehow the exhaust does look the same but different in detail.

The kick start is definitely different, and yes, the tank stars are definitely different. The tubes of the sissy bar look to be further apart in the later pic.

But as there were four Captain Americas used in the movie I guess it's possible that they were not all identical in every detail, and both of the bikes in these pictures could each be one of the four?

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