STANDARD STREET BIKES

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STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
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So I was just checking the "Standard Street" models from the Big Three.


It seems Honda has given up on the retro-looking CB1100 EX, probably due to lack of sales, especially in the US. Honda got the look right, (although I feel sure it should have had 4 pipes), but I think the relatively low power figures put a lot of people off. Anyway, after the limited Final Edition, it's gone.



So what IS available, well, not very much. Checking Suzuki's US and European sites, they have nothing that really qualifiers as a Standard Street bike, you have to settle for a preying-mantis-creature-from-the Alien movie-looking machine like the GSX S1000.



Yamaha doesn't do much better, their only offering is the XSR900. I figure they must have thrown it together real quick because the gas tank is obviously from another machine as it certainly doesn't fit this one!



That just leaves Honda, and they have the CB1000R, well in Europe they do, here in the US we just have the CB1000R Black Edition, Europe has a choice of 4 colors, Red, White, Matt Black or All-Black, here you can have it any color you like as long as it's all black!

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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Fatfatboy
I’m afraid insectoid is the new standard.
It seems the only folks that don’t want insect bikes is hipsters and old guys.
Hipsters are too busy butchering perfectly good old UJM’s and old guys still want a $6,995.00 price tag,,, or over priced cruisers.
There once was a biker named Double-Fat. Who rode all over like a cafeined gnat.
When he once tried some Frenchy booze, His skills improved the more he wooz'd-
And he was heard to mumble, "Dood- that's where it's AT!"Uncle Ernie-4-24-2011
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Fatfatboy
In reply to this post by Allred
Allred wrote
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 here you can have it any color you like as long as it's all black!

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It worked for Henry.
There once was a biker named Double-Fat. Who rode all over like a cafeined gnat.
When he once tried some Frenchy booze, His skills improved the more he wooz'd-
And he was heard to mumble, "Dood- that's where it's AT!"Uncle Ernie-4-24-2011
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
In reply to this post by Fatfatboy
Fatfatboy wrote
I’m afraid insectoid is the new standard. It seems the only folks that don’t want insect bikes is hipsters and old guys. Hipsters are too busy butchering perfectly good old UJM’s and old guys still want a $6,995.00 price tag,,, or over priced cruisers.
Gosh-darn it, I hate to think that the majority of buying public actually like those entomological contraptions.

Fings aint wot they used ta be!

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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Mad4TheCrest
In reply to this post by Allred
There are some other 'standard' bikes if you drop down in displacement, although most are still insectoid.  

I don't cut Honda any slack for their awful misinterpretation or outright dismissal of feedback from the US Market. If Honda US filtered the feedback then Honda ought to fold that organization and start over with a new crew. Honda had to know that what American fans wanted was a bike that looked retro but with modern performance and safety. Not unlike what Kawasaki did with the ZRX all those years ago only with modern fuel injection, ABS and TC. Is that too hard an ask? Well, then just give us the CB1000R with the 919 styling (circa 2002). Make sure the tank is copious, the seat is adjustable for rider height, and there's cruise control for those these days who just won't buy without it (so they say). 🤨



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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred


I have to admit that it was a erroneous of me not to include Kawasaki in "The Big Three" Japanese manufacturers, I should have contemplated "The Big Four", after all their ZX900RS is the most faithfully retro'ed of them all.

The ZX900RS kicks out 25% more horsepower than Honda's CB1100RS, despite being 200cc smaller in engine capacity, and it definitely has a great retro look, which is a good thing. It's a pity they didn't put four pipes on it, or even two would have helped, 4-into-1 just doesn't do it on a retro street standard.

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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Mad4TheCrest
"...4-into-1 just doesn't do it on a retro street standard..."

But that was what all the cool kids did to their fours back in the day. 😜
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Fatfatboy
This post was updated on .
I have to admit, I like the Z900RS. Probably the best looking retro out there, not counting the a Ural or Royal Enfields. That's true retro, or is it true originals?


I think the 4 into 2 looks like the bike is trying to be something it isn't. The double cannons look good on an old CB750 but there is something about this combo I don't care for. Maybe it's the big gap between seat and tire. Maybe a 4 into 2 with a cannon on each side?

 


Kinda like this 4 into 1 doesn't seem to fit the old CB. Doesn't look thought out but I'm sure it's a good performer.



Hard to beat the style of a CB750 with a 4 into 4





There once was a biker named Double-Fat. Who rode all over like a cafeined gnat.
When he once tried some Frenchy booze, His skills improved the more he wooz'd-
And he was heard to mumble, "Dood- that's where it's AT!"Uncle Ernie-4-24-2011
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
In reply to this post by Mad4TheCrest
Mad4TheCrest wrote
But that was what all the cool kids did to their fours back in the day. 😜
The cool kids kept the OEM pipes, those that went to the 4-into-1s were mostly those who fell off their machines, damaged the pipes and couldn't afford to replace with expensive OEMs. Others in northern climes went a similar route if the road salt rusted their OEM 4 pipes and an aftermarket 4-into-1 was the cheap alternative.

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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
In reply to this post by Fatfatboy
Fatfatboy wrote
I have to admit, I like the Z900RS. Probably the best looking retro out there, not counting the a Ural or Royal Enfields. That's true retro, or is it true originals?
I think the 4 into 2 looks like the bike is trying to be something it isn't. The double cannons look good on an old CB750 but there is something about this combo I don't care for. Maybe it's the big gap between seat and tire. Maybe a 4 into 2 with a cannon on each side would make a better fit.
I have to admit that I don't like the styling of those "twin" mufflers on that RS, and maybe the 4-into-4 is something that was of its day and not "necessary" now, but I really dislike seeing an exhaust system on just one side of the bike.

I like the even and balanced look of a muffler each side.


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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Mad4TheCrest
In reply to this post by Allred
In the late 70's and early 80's switching to 4 into 1 was a performance mod. Technically I am not sure why, but if you look at the Big 4's 4-cyl race superbikes from that era they all are 4-1.  And all the 'cool kids' followed their heroes with their mods. Like you, Allred, I used to crave the symmetry of pipes on both sides, but somewhere along the way the asymmetric approach got burned into my brain as 'fast' or 'race'. So much so that when Suzuki switched their GSXR-1000R back to 4-2 in 2009, it just looked wrong. Ducati's twin underseat pipes were a big exception to my perception of symmetry.
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred


Yes, I'm unsure why the time and effort that once went into the beautiful multi-muffler designs of the '60s gave way to aesthetically crude 4-into-1s. The 6-into-6 exhaust of the 250 and 297 Hondas must have plagued the mechanics when it came to working on the machines, but I guess they were necessary in order to tune each cylinder independently. MV and Benelli had similarly complex designs.

Later works machines like the Triumph/BSA triples went the 3-into-1 route, maybe the lower-revving engines benefited from some sort of back pressure produced by such design.

The later two strokes of the 80s/90s went back to 4 expansion chambers, poking out of all sorts of orifices, I'm assuming the finicky two-strokes had to be tuned per cylinder like the earlier ultra-high-revving 4 strokes.

Current MotoGP bikes don't seem to place much importance on the look of the exhaust at all.

Retail bikes tended to at least be 2-into-2s and 4-into-2s, giving a balanced look, although, as you say the manufacturers began making race-bike lookalikes like the GSXRs which went mostly with 4-into-1s. (and even flimsy race-replica brake fluid reservoirs)

When Kawasaki released the Z1000 in the 2000s with twin rear pipes it didn't get much approval, so maybe the days of 4-into-4 are really over, a thing of their time but gone forever.

The Yamaha XJR 1200/1300 went with a nicely balanced 4-into-2 for most of its 16 years of production, and I still think its probably the most useful and the best looking naked standard street bike made.

Suzuki's Hayabusa holds an even longer record with its balanced-looking 4-into-2 set up for 22 years! Although I have to admit that most used examples have been "modified" to Yoshimira 4-into-2 or 4-into1 abominations. I know these riders don't need an extra 3 or 4 horsepower on top of the 197 available so it must be for some other reason that my far from youthful mind can't grasp.

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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Mad4TheCrest
All good points, Allred. I remember reviewers generally  liking those 4 into 2 into 4 Z1000 exhausts but the look didn't excite buyers as much, at least not after that cool first year paint scheme was replaced by basic orange and green schemes, which I don't think went as well with gold tint pipes.

As for "Current MotoGP bikes don't seem to place much importance on the look of the exhaust at all...", I think I'd give Suzuki as an exception. The exhaust as it swoops back along the right side of that bike is beautiful.

Parting thought: A lot of owners over the years added aftermarket slip-on cans to their stock exhausts rather than replacing the full system. I wonder if the extra expense of needing TWO slip-ons deterred sales of double-piped bikes enough to encourage manufacturers to keep with the 4 into 1?
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
Mad4TheCrest wrote
A lot of owners over the years added aftermarket slip-on cans to their stock exhausts rather than replacing the full system. I wonder if the extra expense of needing TWO slip-ons deterred sales of double-piped bikes enough to encourage manufacturers to keep with the 4 into 1?
It hasn't stopped a lot of Hayabusa owners, so many of those dump the stock mufflers for a pair of slip-ons, but like you say, a pair of slip-ons is probably cheaper than replacing the whole system with a 4-into-1.

I think the real reason most folks go for the slipons, whether single or paired, or complete 4-into-1 systems, is for the noise, usually the stock mufflers are not "fast enough" for a lot of noobs, and the slip-ons carry some sort of "credibility" in a "look-how-fast-I-am" way.
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

oldironnow
This is a nice discussion.
Supports splitting everywhere.
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
In reply to this post by Mad4TheCrest
Mad4TheCrest wrote
As for "Current MotoGP bikes don't seem to place much importance on the look of the exhaust at all...", I think I'd give Suzuki as an exception. The exhaust as it swoops back along the right side of that bike is beautiful.


Yes, the Factory Suzuki does seem to have had some aesthetic thought applied to its mufflers, I have to think that the mirror-image design, elongated end shape, and swooping flow have more to do with appearance than function.
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred
KC's take on the ugly exhaust problem from 10+ years ago!
https://www.cycleworld.com/2011/01/07/why-the-ugly-mufflers-special-feature/
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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

Allred




My CBR954RR from 2002, damn that muffler was big!

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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

motogrady
Did somebody say 4 in 4?

I've had this '82k model on ice in a storage shed for about a year.
7,000 on the clock, oem thru and thru.  Or pretty effing close.  



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Re: STANDARD STREET BIKES

motogrady


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