Triumph going dirt.

[motogrady]

Talk about something coming out of left field.....

Off the press release from Triumph.

TRIUMPH ANNOUNCE THEIR INTENT TO ENTER THE MOTOCROSS AND ENDURO WORLDS

Triumph Motorcycles is excited to announce that development is well underway on a comprehensive range of all-new competition Motocross and Enduro motorcycles. Joining our class-leading and globally renowned motorcycle range, this all-new competition MX and Enduro (Dual Sport) family will bring all of Triumph’s engineering expertise to riders and racers worldwide.

This will be accompanied by a landmark moment for Triumph and the MX and Enduro racing world with an all-new Triumph factory race program and a commitment to top-tier championship racing in both Motocross and Enduro series.

Coming hand-in-hand with this commitment to race and win at the highest level in the sport, Triumph is proud to announce that global Motocross legend Ricky Carmichael and five-times Enduro World Champion Iván Cervantes have joined the Triumph family as active partners in both bike testing and preparation for racing.

An announcement of the timetable for the launch and reveal of the motorcycles, as well as the racing program and the full story on the product advantages the new Triumph MX and Enduro offer, will follow in the coming months.

[Fatfatboy]

Wowsers! Didn’t see that coming.

Probably a good move. One thing the pandemic has helped around these parts is the sale of off-road power sports.

I will be interested in the enduro models.

[motogrady]

Fatfatboy wrote

Wowsers! Didn’t see that coming.

Probably a good move. One thing the pandemic has helped around these parts is the sale of off-road power sports.

I will be interested in the enduro models.

Rumor has it it's been in the works for at least 2 years now.
Apparently it started with some polling type company contacting around a hundred people.  Not totally industry types but those that are in the off-road scene.  It was a month long thing.  Those selected were asked a lot of things about what they wanted in a dirt bike.  It was all anonymous, who it was for that is.   But, one of the questions was what European marque that did not currently make dirt, Triumph, MV, Aprilla, and a few others, would they buy from.

Word has it it's a totally from the ground up, in house thing.  
No rehashed Cannondale or Rickman thing.  
All new, all Triumph.

They have had Ricky Carmichael working for them for about a year now.  
Doing the Adventure bike thing.
Nobody could figure that one out.

Even tho it seems to be as well a kept secret as the Manhatten Project of WW2,  no pics have leaked,
no rumors even before the press release, feeling is they might be a lot closer to having something ready than any knows.  

I mean, there is talk they are gonna field a factory team even.  

AMA Supercross, World Championship GP Motocross, The ISDE, with Triumphs on the starting line.

That my friends, would be too cool for words.  

[motogrady]

This might be up somewhere else on the site.
But I thought it might offer a bit of insight as to what can and does go wrong at the factory sometimes.

I know, it's BSA.....but still revenant.

https://youtu.be/VDVjM25DzUk

[oldironnow]

Triumph in dirt racing?
Very cool!
Makes me wonder about HD...
Wasn't Buell developing a dirtbike near the end (or 'ends')?

[motogrady]

oldironnow wrote

Triumph in dirt racing?
Very cool!
Makes me wonder about HD...
Wasn't Buell developing a dirtbike near the end (or 'ends')?

Yes, they were.  
They hired a guy named Dave Osterman, to kind of head it.  He was mainly a top wrench in pro Motocross.  Over the years, he let a few bits of it out.  It was called "The Griffin Project" in house.
They had him tied down with a non disclosure pretty good.
But I was on a dirt bike forum he posted on, and every now and then he'd mention something.  

It was pretty interesting.

They had started it all with buying a brand new Honda 450CRF.  They kept it squirreled away in a warehouse, and would refer to it as the proceeded as they developed their prototype.

 He explained how they would, let's say, be working on brakes.  
They would schedule like 3 or 4 tests, and have Dave meet each manufacturer they were considering on using for brakes on the Griffin.  Said the factory would have 2 or 3 engineers show up, guys from R&D, and the vendor they were considering, fit the item on the prototype and see how they worked.  Said they measured everything. Recorded everything.  Took feedback from the test rider.
 That it was all pretty over the top.
Said Eric was a really cool guy to work with.

But, alas, they pulled the plug.

My take was it was doomed anyway.  
It was Cannondale revisited.  
Too many engineers.  Too many hands in the pie.  Too much red tape. Like the elephant they are, they moved too slow.  
The exact opposite of how KTM does it.

My feeling was, even if they built and released it, they would not have been able to keep up with how fast things evolve in that arena.  

Here's a clay mock up, I think it's in the HD museum.  Oysterman implied it was real close to what they had going at the time.

[oldironnow]

FASCINATING !!!!

If Buell had been spun off into it's own stand-alone brand/store, and the Great Recession hadn't happened, i bet they would've made it.

[motogrady]

oldironnow wrote

FASCINATING !!!!

If Buell had been spun off into it's own stand-alone brand/store, and the Great Recession hadn't happened, i bet they would've made it.

You can see a few things Buell in that mock up.  
Note the no fuel tank. Looks like they were going with integrating fuel storage in the frame.
The big ass, wide frame spar, looks kinda like some off his streetbikes.
The no link rear shock suspension. I think KTM tried that for a few years.  It saved weight, Ohlin made a special shock for it, but they eventually went back to linkage.
No downtubes under the engine.  They were going with using the engine as a stressed member., a part of the frame.  Don't know how that would have worked out.  Heck, the big jump at Red Bud, one of the tracks on the US Pro Motocross circuits, those guy go 150 feet. That's 50 yards. Half a football field.
Wide open, throttle wise.  That thing, imo, frame wise just looked, I dunno, kind of delicate.  

All that stuff might look good, engineer wise, but would it really perform on the track?

From what I gather, the main reason for KTM doing so well, is not really the engineering by the engineers, but first, they listen to their factory riders and team managers. And 2nd, they act on their wants and needs.  Quickly.  Roger DeCoster, head of racing has said he can pick up the phone on Monday, call the factory in Austria, tell them he wants a certain part made differently, and poof, Fed X delivers it to him, here in the States, on Wednesday.

No other manufacturer does that.  Most, it would be 3 weeks. At least.  

Hopefully, Triumph will take a page out of that book.  

[hacksaw]

doubtful.

[Fatfatboy]

Getting closer

https://youtube.com/watch?v=m0shNL5ASyA&feature=sharea

https://www.cyclenews.com/2023/07/article/triumph-motocross-bike-reveal/

[hacksaw]

RIP
Peewee!