30 years later

[Fatfatboy]

Looks like HD may be dabbling with variable valve timing to keep the Sportster Evo motor alive.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/35083/variable-valve-timing-patents-could-bring-the-harley-davidson-v-twin-into-this-century


I hope they can. The Sportster motor is the solid rock of the company.

[oldironnow]

I'm not so bonded to HD's tech as it could be described as worship,
but the idea of a push rod migrating to the left side of the engine (like some reverse trip of a flounder's eyeball...)
seems greatly disturbing.
I almost feel like the resultant new animal would not even be a Sportster.
Which is insane.

[Fatfatboy]

Yeah,,, I would like the push rods to stay where they are but if moving them to the left side allows an air cooled, four cam, push rod motor to still exist I could drink that altered koolaid.
The left side could use some love anyway.

I just hope they can make it as reliable as the current Sportster motor.

[Allred]

oldironnow wrote

the idea of a push rod migrating to the left side of the engine (like some reverse trip of a flounder's eyeball...)seems greatly disturbing.

I felt the same when Norton, Triumph, BSA etc were forced to switch to left-hand gear change.

[oldironnow]

Fatfatboy wrote

Yeah,,, I would like the push rods to stay where they are but if moving them to the left side allows an air cooled, four cam, push rod motor to still exist I could drink that altered koolaid.
The left side could use some love anyway.

I just hope they can make it as reliable as the current Sportster motor.

True. There looks to be some new fancy bits spinning around, and they will not need to have twin-cam-style teething issues.

[oldironnow]

Allred wrote

I felt the same when Norton, Triumph, BSA etc were forced to switch to left-hand gear change.

That transition must've been barmy.

(New word for me from today's MotoGP)

[Allred]

oldironnow wrote

That transition must've been barmy.(New word for me from today's MotoGP)

I noticed the use of that today too, haven't heard that in many years.

Also one which probably went over the heads of most was when, on the same lap, commentator Steve Day asked a rhetorical question about Vinales and Matt Birt said "Please send your answers on a postcard to........"

.

[monkeyshines]

That new "Sportster" engine design is no longer a four cam, it's a twin cam. It's also balanced so they can lose the clunky rubber mounts, and it has that wonky sliding bridged 4-valve train ( https://www.rideapart.com/articles/368113/harley-new-pushrod-engine-patent/ ) that ups the rpm range(+1500rpm thereabouts)
Hopefully this remains a go, it would seem to align with the new boss' beliefs, sort of a be all the Harley we can be approach.

[oldironnow]

monkeyshines wrote

That new "Sportster" engine design is no longer a four cam, it's a twin cam. It's also balanced so they can lose the clunky rubber mounts, and it has that wonky sliding bridged 4-valve train ( https://www.rideapart.com/articles/368113/harley-new-pushrod-engine-patent/ ) that ups the rpm range(+1500rpm thereabouts)
Hopefully this remains a go, it would seem to align with the new boss' beliefs, sort of a be all the Harley we can be approach.

Thank you, mr. Shines. "Where's that confounded Bridge?"  I'm going to call it The Crunge Head.

I wonder if engineers get involved in these corporate knife fights?

The Liquid-Engine team battling the Bridge-Head team, battling the Marketing-Team, battling the Production Team...

Gotta say, the included valve angle looks incredibly small. That's going to give a compact AND open combustion chamber. Get the squish and swirl and they're good to go on power and emissions.

Reading a KC analysis of the KTM890 (why does it have the same power?), that could've been a deal sealer.


.

[Fatfatboy]

Thanks Shines.
I do have to wonder, will Harley's be seen as more of a throw away bike with continuous motor changes?


Grunge Head. I love it.

[monkeyshines]

Fatfatboy wrote

Thanks Shines.
I do have to wonder, will Harley's be seen as more of a throw away bike with continuous motor changes?


Grunge Head. I love it.

I think it's been thirty or fourty years since the evolution sporty arrived, though I do get what you're saying, more changes more often and they've shortened the time between changes. It's hard to imagine used Sportsters becoming any cheaper, but in general big model changes affect prices on the old bikes. Value of the solid mounts in particular have cratered around here, I assume rubber mounts did that, same way the aluminum bikes biffed the iron heads, twin cams the evos etc. Good for someone buying used, not so much the seller. I know prices of shovelheads have dropped   

[Mad4TheCrest]

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[Fatfatboy]

monkeyshines wrote

I think it's been thirty or fourty years since the evolution sporty arrived, though I do get what you're saying, more changes more often and they've shortened the time between changes. It's hard to imagine used Sportsters becoming any cheaper, but in general big model changes affect prices on the old bikes. Value of the solid mounts in particular have cratered around here, I assume rubber mounts did that, same way the aluminum bikes biffed the iron heads, twin cams the evos etc. Good for someone buying used, not so much the seller. I know prices of shovelheads have dropped  

Around here the mid to late 90’s Sportster seems to be still holding good value.  The less expensive ones are the 2001-2003. I’m not sure why. The 04-06 can be picked up pretty cheap.
For the money and customizability the early 2000’s are the best bang for the buck IMO.

[Fatfatboy]

Mad4TheCrest wrote

Question from the uninitiated (me):

Of the pre M-8 HD models that may be now depreciating; which would you recommend as a good first HD roadster/cruiser for a long-time rider who has never owned anything more cruiserish than a ZRX?

Well all the Softails are all forward controls.
Some good choices for more spirited riding IMO would be
06 Vrod Street Rod
Super Glide
Low Rider or any of the Dyna’s with mid controls.
16-20 Roadster.

[monkeyshines]

The M8 streetbob(lower right) has mid mounts, they're behind the "nosecone", the fatbob's forwards are up at the front downtube, it's a pretty big differance, probably a foot. The previous twincam generation Streetbob's pegs are in the same position.

[monkeyshines]

Fatfatboy wrote

Mad4TheCrest wrote

Question from the uninitiated (me):

Of the pre M-8 HD models that may be now depreciating; which would you recommend as a good first HD roadster/cruiser for a long-time rider who has never owned anything more cruiserish than a ZRX?

Well all the Softails are all forward controls.
Some good choices for more spirited riding IMO would be
06 Vrod Street Rod
Super Glide
Low Rider or any of the Dyna’s with mid controls.
16-20 Roadster.

 Maybe a dealer would let you test ride a few different used bikes to get a feel.

[Mad4TheCrest]

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[Fatfatboy]

Mad4TheCrest wrote

Maybe, but I am not sure I want to subject myself to the sales pitches of desperate salespersons in the process :(

Sounds like you have some pretty pushy salesmen in your area. Unfortunately the dealer might be your best bet. Many private sellers will not let you ride with out cash in hand.

[oldironnow]

I miss my 883R. I recommend.

My son and I loved that bike to its death.

Flatbar conversion.

The mids felt like forwards to me.

I used to ride around with my feet on the passenger pegs. I got so used to shifting my feet around to manipulate the bike that I found myself hanging out my legs a'la the MotoGP crowd when shifting or braking on the Buell.

Me:



The youngun':



Black Rock Desert:






.

[Mad4TheCrest]

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