It is balloon !

[hacksaw]

Frank deCorva not withstanding.
HD is up to more trickery.
If the  7.99% isnt bad enuff , Eaglemark will give you a 48 month loan on a new bike .
That’s relatively low monthly payments.
For 47 months! The 48th payment is a huge thousands of dollars balloon payment!
How can this even be legal?

[motogrady]

https://youtu.be/_vUrAMxmO_A?si=Im9YMMb1oBcVQbzP

[oldironnow]

It works if one is planning on going bankrupt in four years .

[hacksaw]

Lol

[oldironnow]

Getting surprised by that… would suck.

But in shades of those 2000’s balloon mortgages, i wonder if people are being sold on, or are actively planning on, the ability to refinance later in a supposedly lower interest rate environment.

Alternatively, with eyes open, this motorcycle mortgage might work for someone who might be finishing paying off some other purchase before they can pivot in a few years to chewing down the rest of today’s motorcycle purchase.

[hacksaw]

That’s all possible.
But it’s still iMHO somewhat dishonest .

[oldironnow]

hacksaw wrote

That’s all possible.
But it’s still iMHO somewhat dishonest .

I agree.
I feel a lot of folks aren’t wary/knowledgeable enough to catch or make a safe judgement.


.

[Fatfatboy]

Harley is upfront with this plan. It's called the H-D Flex Plan.
Buy the bike with 10% down, which could be taken from your trade in, pay the lower payment for 3-4 years then trade the bike in for another and start the whole process all over again or refinance. It's more like leasing without calling it leasing.

I just traded in the geezer trike on a leftover 2023 Low Rider ST but went with the traditional loan at 7%. Harley doesn't want your cash anymore. It should be called Harley Davidson Motorcycles, Bank and Trust.
If you pay cash they charge more for the bike or give less for the trade in. The best way to do it is set up the loan, make a payment or two and then pay the bike off or refinance through your bank or C.U.
Although right now the banks are at 8-9%.

Right now HD is offering as low as 1.99% on leftover 2023 high priced dressers, Breakout and 2022 Evo Sportsers (here's your chance Keith to get the last Evo) . This ends 12/31/23. They are trying to make room for the 2024 models and December is their slowest sales of the year so dealers are dealing this month.

Supposedly the feds are suppose to drop interests rates a three times in 2024 so this balloon thing might work for some who can't wait.

[hacksaw]

You call it up front , fine.
But it’s still smacks of offering candy to a baby.

Noway I am paying 7% on anything , much less a motorcycle I might want , but don’t need.
1.99% sounds great .
Idk how many “22 sportys are in stock anywhere.  
Last time I looked $11,000 for 883s sucked.

My preference in sportsters is “85 to “03.

[hacksaw]

The 2022 sportster the 1.99% seems to be on is the sportster S . Not any leftover “22 Evos.

For some reason the dealer web sites are very hard to browse.
Hartford Harley shows a 2022 883N evo
$10,999 USED!

They show a nice blue metal flake 2014 sportster72
But no price listed.
I won’t ask because in the past they want ridiculous money . But worse , they have a girl get back to you that has no authority to Make a deal , knows not even the simplest answers and will keep after me for months.  

The only new Harley remotely worth the price is the softail standard . IF one can find a 2022 leftover at 1.99 % .

I just cant stand the Harley corporate bullshit . These new dealers that have recently changed hands. It’s like all the personnel went to some Harley University and they all now corporate clones. It’s like the motorclothes mannequins came to life. The dealerships are like one is stuck in a vincent price wax museum .
I have been buying various Harley’s from dealerships for 45 years. Never say never, but with the prices of the bikes , 7% interest rates and the shallowness of the dealers, no more.  

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

You call it up front , fine.
But it’s still smacks of offering candy to a baby.

Noway I am paying 7% on anything , much less a motorcycle I might want , but don’t need.
1.99% sounds great .
Idk how many “22 sportys are in stock anywhere.  
Last time I looked $11,000 for 883s sucked.

My preference in sportsters is “85 to “03.

I guess it's all in how you look at it. For people with disposable income who want a new bike every couple or few years it works for them. I surely wouldn't do it on a motorcycle or a car.

In business balloon rates are very common. Sometimes they work in the banks favor and some times they don't. Well I guess they always work in the banks favor. If they didn't the banks wouldn't loan money. They can't pay the rent just holding on to peoples money. They have to put it to work.

We really got spoiled with the real low rates of the past recent years. In the 70's they ran 8-10%. In the 80's they shot up to as high as 18%.By '95 they were back to 9%. In 2000 my mortgage rate was 7%. By 2012 I was able to get a 2.625 rate on a construction loan. I don't see how that even paid the rent for the banks. With that low of interest I was able to pay the house off in seven years. The bank didn't make much off that loan.
My hope is the rates will eventually settle to around the 5% mark. I think that is a fair rate and will keep construction going. Now that it's gone up to the 7% mark I started to notice that bigger projects started to cut back. That does no one any good.

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

The 2022 sportster the 1.99% seems to be on is the sportster S . Not any leftover “22 Evos.

For some reason the dealer web sites are very hard to browse.
Hartford Harley shows a 2022 883N evo
$10,999 USED!

They show a nice blue metal flake 2014 sportster72
But no price listed.
I won’t ask because in the past they want ridiculous money . But worse , they have a girl get back to you that has no authority to Make a deal , knows not even the simplest answers and will keep after me for months.  

The only new Harley remotely worth the price is the softail standard . IF one can find a 2022 leftover at 1.99 % .

I just cant stand the Harley corporate bullshit . These new dealers that have recently changed hands. It’s like all the personnel went to some Harley University and they all now corporate clones. It’s like the motorclothes mannequins came to life. The dealerships are like one is stuck in a vincent price wax museum .
I have been buying various Harley’s from dealerships for 45 years. Never say never, but with the prices of the bikes , 7% interest rates and the shallowness of the dealers, no more.

From the HD site; *Financing Offer available only on select new 2023 and 2022 Harley-Davidson® motorcycles financed through Eaglemark Savings Bank and is subject to credit approval. Harley-Davidson® CVO™, Police Duty, Anniversary, Icons, Highway King, Ultra Limited® Anniversary, Road Glide® Special Anniversary and Street Glide® Special Anniversary models are excluded, along with 2023 Trike, 2022 Trike and 2022 Sportster® (Evolution Engine) and 2023 Breakout® models.

I read it incorrectly. The Evo is EXCLUDED. My apologies.

I really dislike dealers that won't post prices on their website or the bikes sitting on the floor. Like you I won't even ask. That is one of the reasons I drive past three dealerships and go to the HD dealer two hours away. They price them right on their site and on the bikes on the floor. They also don't mess around with beating up up on trade in's. I just take a photo of the VIN, odometer, front, left, right and rear of the bike send them in and they give me a quote. No poking at a ding or a scratch, tires or service work.
They will give a low ball price but they have always come up from the first price. It's their job to get the best price possible.
On the trike they gave me a grand less than what I could sell it out right for on marketplace and the like They needed to move some new bikes to meet their HD required quota and their aren't to many folks buying bikes in December this year.

I think the higher interest rates are causing folks to hang on to the bike they have paid off or have a lower rate on. Hence the new Flex Financing thing that HD is doing. At least thats what my pea brain thinks.

[hacksaw]

I don’t recall motorcycle loans ever bring 18%
2.65 definitely pays the rent . They have to put the money someplace. They are only giving .65% on savings so 2 is pure gain.
And 2.65% is a lot of money for the banks when people were borrowing to finance all the McMansions out there.
Housing market is bad presently. So banks are actually making less money at high interest rates since people are hanging in to their homes with 3% loans.
I have more Harley’s than I can remember .
Maybe 4 or 5 I bought new.
I lost my taste for todays corporate HD.
Woukd I ever buy another new Harley ?
Maybe . But they don’t really make anything that I am so in love with to pay 7%.
You own  a working business so perhaps you are more actively engaged with  “people that have disposable income “ . Not knocking that. But there once was a time when HD was an American brand. People identified Harley with down home everyday Americana. Harley has lost that .
By rights they should give me 7% off . Not charge me 7% interest . Or drop a 10,000$ loan on some idiots head 4 years from now .
As I said , I have supported the Harley-Davidson Motor Co thru thick and thin. I have no personal reason to be disappointed in them . It is what it is.  

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

I just cant stand the Harley corporate bullshit .
These new dealers that have recently changed hands. It’s like all the personnel went to some Harley University and they all now corporate clones. It’s like the motorclothes mannequins came to life. The dealerships are like one is stuck in a vincent price wax museum .
I have been buying various Harley’s from dealerships for 45 years. Never say never, but with the prices of the bikes , 7% interest rates and the shallowness of the dealers, no more.

Unfortunately until we see a huge drop in HD sales the corporate BS is here to stay. The days of being able to walk in and talk to the owner who they day before you might have seen out on his bike instead of a Lincoln SUV or over.
It ain't just Harley. Corporate everything is taking over. I've seen it in the 30 years I've been in business. All the small vendors I've been buying from have been taken over by large corporations that have taken customer service and flushed it. It's all about the bean counter now.

I hate to sound like that old guy bitchin about everything being better years ago but it's true. The souls of the people I have worked with for years are beat down because corporate as taken over and squashed the joy out of their every day lives. Peope that used to enjoy going to work.

motorclothes mannequins came to life  Haha,, I like that and fits so well.

[hacksaw]

You are certainly no pea brain!
You make much realistic sense.
You are not being a grumpy guy from the past becuz u are dead right .
Part if the Covid shutdowns were to tamp down mom and pops. People whom run small biz are mainly independent minded people whom don’t vote Marxist .

I am the one bitching about the way things were .
But I put decades in my life into those ways.

When are we going to see your low rider ?
As much as I kinda think the ST is sort of space age looking but it’s got to beat the barges out there .

[hacksaw]

Hey ya know , u touched on something I can’t get my wife to understand
She wants to buy a fancy suv. We owe a few months on the family Nissan do I told her to trade it in .
“Oh no! They don’t give you fair value .”
KBB is 9-12k . Most dealers are going to at least lip service to KBB.
So if they give 10k and private sale is 11. That’s good.
Imho. So you get 600+ back on sakes tax . And for a few hundred dollars not hassling private trolls , how can u go wrong ? Taking 10k out of savings for a down payment sucks . And if you borrow more then yiu are paying interest on that as well .
But she won’t listen . People at work told her yadda yadda …
Just like the stove we bought to replace our old drop in .
They only make one model like that anymore and it cost 200 more than a slide in .
I lost that argument band it cost me 500 more to have the gas service altered and I had to modify the counter top .
And it still is not right !

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

You are certainly no pea brain!
You make much realistic sense.
You are not being a grumpy guy from the past becuz u are dead right .
Part if the Covid shutdowns were to tamp down mom and pops. People whom run small biz are mainly independent minded people whom don’t vote Marxist .

I am the one bitching about the way things were .
But I put decades in my life into those ways.

When are we going to see your low rider ?
As much as I kinda think the ST is sort of space age looking but it’s got to beat the barges out there .

Thanks. I tend to think I just ramble on like the ol' man in the corner picking at the wall paper.

I think you are on to something about trying to shut down the Mom & Pops. The government is not a big fan of them it seems. They give a lot of breaks to the big guys that us little shops don't typically see. Amazon only pays about 9% tax where us small guys are around 20% for example. Then there's the TIF's that a lot of big box stores get from local tax relief.
What I don't understand is why. Nearly 50% of US employee's are woking for small business.
I gues it might have something to do with it's easier to watch a couple sheep VS a hundred sheep.

Here's the new bike. Just delivered today.

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

Hey ya know , u touched on something I can’t get my wife to understand
She wants to buy a fancy suv. We owe a few months on the family Nissan do I told her to trade it in .
“Oh no! They don’t give you fair value .”
KBB is 9-12k . Most dealers are going to at least lip service to KBB.
So if they give 10k and private sale is 11. That’s good.

 That is why I do trade ins more than sell out right on my newer bikes. I just don't have time to waste on tire kickers.

Now older bikes it's a different story. I have to sell those out right and deal with tire kickers and such or put them up on eBay and take my chances. So far on eBay I've done pretty good except on the Royal Enfield. I took a beating on that one. I sold it for $2k less than I paid for it. Oh well some guy in Maryland got a good deal and I got to try one out. Learned I liked looking at it more than riding it.

[hacksaw]

Yup.

[hacksaw]

Hey it’s got gold wheels !
Good luck with it.
Some gold stripping might help it. Traditional Like the contours of the tank  .
 
Well u do ramble at times . But we all do .

They elites don’t like independent minded people. The last old fashioned hardware store closed this year . Once every neighborhood had one. Every neighborhood had a pharmacy. Even a bar and grill.
Your trades are now under the gun as well .
Landscapers will be next .
Only thing opening around here are chain restaurants and nail salons.
Figure it this way , 40 employees working at Home Depot are easier to control than  40 people working at 10 corner hardware stores.