Chinese Sportsters, possibly?

[Fatfatboy]

The Chinese are masters at copying so many thing’s. Now they have created the Evrolution (said in a crappy Asian/English accent)

https://www.rideapart.com/news/594974/shineray-harley-davidson-evolution-vtwin/amp/

I wonder if they are preparing for the Chinese Sportster

[oldironnow]

I am at once both attracted and repelled....


https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2022/june/chinese-shineray-familiar-v-twin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO3McnAyFQM

[Fatfatboy]

oldironnow wrote

I am at once both attracted and repelled....

Spot on.

So the Chinese took an American icon, improved it and made it Euro compliant.
I have to ask why Harley couldn’t have done the same instead of scraping the motor and developing something completely different.

The new Sportster S is something they needed to attract those desiring performance and something new but the tried and true Evolution Sportster should remain as a staple.
And a lower price point.

My guess is the Sportster S makes more money per bike than a lower price Sportster.

[hacksaw]

how do u know its improved?

i am considering buying one more new motorcycle in my life. thats if i can ride. i haven't done much this year.
couple of reasons. i love my fatboy. but i am having trouble with my body trying to muscle the fat front tire and wide bars to get it turned around and out of the garage. its also getting the chrome pitting.
i still have the triumph and BMW. and shovel heads and BMW and other projects. i got to thin the heard.
but more so i need to downsize my rides.

i am currently without a sportster. yes! i know that is a total sin. and i do have lots of sporty stuff scattered all over. but anyway, i started investigating 2022 sportsters. the real ones.
as usual with harley, they make models that dont have what i want. ex: the 883 isnt a 1200 and the 1200 has forward controls.  and i dont like the colors, or the fat front tire on one, etc etc.
the prices are high imho. 12k for an 883? how much to have it punched to 1200 and order the paint sets from last year?

so then i come across this,
(tried for over half an hour to post a pic here!)


https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/softail-standard.html

14k. thats less than i paid for a new 2006 super glide custom.
i could get all the extended warranty and maintenance plans and just be done with it.
at my age resale is meaningless.

of course, the closest dealers dont have one!
joe biden. showrooms were crammed with bikes under Trump.  

[oldironnow]

Fatfatboy wrote

oldironnow wrote

I am at once both attracted and repelled....

Spot on.
….
I have to ask why Harley couldn’t have done the same instead of scraping the motor and developing something completely different.
….

Imo, Shineray had to detune it so much to get past Euro5, that it lives now at a level that HD buyers would mock and avoid.
If HD is getting cash from licensing or each sale, then they’re at least getting something from their old design while they move into water.
I do wonder if this process is a probationary period for Shineray to prove viability of future HD manufacturing.

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

how do u know its improved?

From the web;

“During the engine’s development, the firm claims to have improved the crankshaft rigidity and strength, boosting durability by 25% under high-load conditions, and improved heat dissipation by 10% thanks to better cylinder head heat sinks and oil circulation. Strengthened pistons, cooled by oil jets underneath, are said to add more reliability and longevity.”


Your issue moving the Fatboy around was the reason my road glide was sold and since I’ve not figured out how to drag a dialysis machine behind it long distance touring is not an option anymore so it wasn’t worth the heft anymore.
That had to be the best bike I’ve ever owned though.



That Softail standard is a great canvas. Stock I can’t stand it, I’m really not a fan of that tank without a dash, but I saw one that had extended forks on it and a king queen seat that gave a great 1970’s vibe.
I’m sure you won’t find one at the $14k price. Dealers are selling everything they have coming n so prices are up.
I’d bet it’s $16k out the door.

The only sporty I have now is a 74 XLCH that’s been converted to electric leg. Great ol’ ironhead.
I sold my 2020 883 because I wasn’t riding it and a kid at work offered me a good number so I sold it to him. He absolutely loves it.

[Fatfatboy]

oldironnow wrote

I do wonder if this process is a probationary period for Shineray to prove viability of future HD manufacturing.

You may be on to something there.  

[hacksaw]

Fatfatboy wrote

hacksaw wrote

how do u know its improved?

From the web;

“During the engine’s development, the firm claims to have improved the crankshaft rigidity and strength, boosting durability by 25% under high-load conditions, and improved heat dissipation by 10% thanks to better cylinder head heat sinks and oil circulation. Strengthened pistons, cooled by oil jets underneath, are said to add more reliability and longevity.”


Your issue moving the Fatboy around was the reason my road glide was sold and since I’ve not figured out how to drag a dialysis machine behind it long distance touring is not an option anymore so it wasn’t worth the heft anymore.
That had to be the best bike I’ve ever owned though.



That Softail standard is a great canvas. Stock I can’t stand it, I’m really not a fan of that tank without a dash, but I saw one that had extended forks on it and a king queen seat that gave a great 1970’s vibe.
I’m sure you won’t find one at the $14k price. Dealers are selling everything they have coming n so prices are up.
I’d bet it’s $16k out the door.

The only sporty I have now is a 74 XLCH that’s been converted to electric leg. Great ol’ ironhead.
I sold my 2020 883 because I wasn’t riding it and a kid at work offered me a good number so I sold it to him. He absolutely loves it.

Fatfatboy wrote

hacksaw wrote

how do u know its improved?

From the web;

“During the engine’s development, the firm claims to have improved the crankshaft rigidity and strength, boosting durability by 25% under high-load conditions, and improved heat dissipation by 10% thanks to better cylinder head heat sinks and oil circulation. Strengthened pistons, cooled by oil jets underneath, are said to add more reliability and longevity.”


Your issue moving the Fatboy around was the reason my road glide was sold and since I’ve not figured out how to drag a dialysis machine behind it long distance touring is not an option anymore so it wasn’t worth the heft anymore.
That had to be the best bike I’ve ever owned though.



That Softail standard is a great canvas. Stock I can’t stand it, I’m really not a fan of that tank without a dash, but I saw one that had extended forks on it and a king queen seat that gave a great 1970’s vibe.
I’m sure you won’t find one at the $14k price. Dealers are selling everything they have coming n so prices are up.
I’d bet it’s $16k out the door.

The only sporty I have now is a 74 XLCH that’s been converted to electric leg. Great ol’ ironhead.
I sold my 2020 883 because I wasn’t riding it and a kid at work offered me a good number so I sold it to him. He absolutely loves it.

You are taking a lot on faith. I don’t believe anything those commie Chinese put out.
There are plenty of used sportsters out there.
So me not to worry .

I always liked the tank mounted dash. I have had many. Still have 2. But I am looking for simplicity. I never liked the  sportsters thst converted to fat bob looking tank mounted gauges. The softail standard is more in line of my thinking on sportsters.

Iron heads are cool. I admire your attitude concerning the dialysis thing. God bless you.

[Fatfatboy]

Looks like An Italian company is stepping up its game using the Chinese Sportster

https://www.rideapart.com/news/622177/swm-custom-v1200-cruiser-eicma/

[hacksaw]

Well that article doesn’t  go beyond what we can see.
So who knows what Harley has to do with this legally.

[Fatfatboy]

Can Harley do anything legally? China companies are notorious for stealing ideas and designs from other companies and then undercutting the company who spent all the R&R to design and make the product.
Harley stopping the sportster in Europe has opened the door for it.

I'd like to know why China can make the motor Euro 5 capable but Harley couldn't or didn't want to.
I like the Sportster S by why not have both?

[oldironnow]

Fatfatboy wrote

Can Harley do anything legally? China companies are notorious for stealing ideas and designs from other companies and then undercutting the company who spent all the R&R to design and make the product.
Harley stopping the sportster in Europe has opened the door for it.

I'd like to know why China can make the motor Euro 5 capable but Harley couldn't or didn't want to.
I like the Sportster S by why not have both?

I feel it has to do with power output.
My reading about other motorcycles described companies like KTM having to increase displacement 12% and take out all valve overlap just meet previous engine’s power levels. Maybe even had to lower compression. ?
I don’t think the Sportster design had space for those changes.

[hacksaw]

>Sportster s is horrible.
The Nightster is interesting .
Harley wants 10k for the old style 883.
A ridiculous price.  

Tried to post a photo I took of a red nightster the other day . File to large I am being told by the board here.

[monkeyshines]

Ain’t nothing like the real thing baby

[motogrady]

I wanna see some of those Polaroids you have, of your old bikes in those shoeboxes.  

Put the pic on a sheet of white paper, get as close as you can before it gets fuzzy, take the shot and upload it right from your phone.

[Fatfatboy]

hacksaw wrote

>Sportster s is horrible.
The Nightster is interesting .
Harley wants 10k for the old style 883.
A ridiculous price.  

Tried to post a photo I took of a red nightster the other day . File to large I am being told by the board here.

From everything I’ve read and watched on YouTube the Sportster S is a great bike. Even non-Harley guys rave on it which is who Harley designed it for.
Yeah it’s $15k but for what it is and for what other bikes are going for that are in that category it’s not as ridiculous as one might think.
I think they just should of used a different name for it and kept the tried and true Sportster. Obviously it’s still a much desirable bike. The Chinese wouldn’t have spent the resources on it if they didn’t see a need.

[hacksaw]

You are the guy whom doesn’t like the softail standard bcz lack of tank mounted gauge. And you like the sportster s.
Well ok. Of course what you read will be flowering. These moto scribes want HD advertising helping them keep their jobs.
The bike just doesnt
Look user friendly to me. I didn’t even want to sit on it.
Conversely the Nightster screams “have a seat !” So I did. And I was impressed. I will return someday to test ride it.
Now how good either bike is as a motorcycle , I guess I can’t argue the point as I really don’t know.
I just don’t like the S. And the nightster in black or boring grey I may have walked on by.
I coukd see buying the red one.
But the exhaust has to go and the fenders need to be painted red . But The bike is nice.

[hacksaw]

As to Chinese . Is this even for the American market? Makes no sense . One can buy a nice used real one for much much less and have plenty of hd and aftermarket support .
 
Wuhan Sportsters .
This is China mocking an American Icon .
I won’t support it.

[Fatfatboy]

I’m in agreement about the colors not matching between the tank and fenders. The different two colors looks unfinished. They started that when they did the hard candy colors. Looks like a guy bought I tank off eBay and stuck it on his bike.

I don’t think the Chinese stole the idea to sell it to America.  We can still get the real thing.  
Im sure it’s for lands that can’t buy a new one.

I’m actually more interested in the pre 04 models. I’ve owned a few of the rubber mount Sportsters but I much prefer my 01 and 73.
There is something they did with the 2010 later frame that has changed the seat of the pants and sole of shoe location that puts the pegs in an weird spot.

[hacksaw]

Of course. 03 and back! I had a 2010. It was ok . But I had an 88 and a couple of 5 speed pre 04 models and I just liked them better. Idk about late frame changes. Thanks for the info . I have so much stuff for earlier sporties I should keep my focus on them.