BSA

[Allred]

Fatfatboy wrote

A Sunbeam, sidecar, country roads and a picnic basket. Perfect!

The double-adult sidecars were large affairs, the above pic shows an Ariel square 4, but you can imagine the strain of a rider, a pillion passenger and two adults inside the double adult side car on a 24bhp Sunbeam S7!!! (Sidecar outfits did reduced the gearing to try to compensate)

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[Allred]

Ran across this pic of a very nice BSA A10 and just had to post it.


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[Allred]

For those interested in additional BSA disasters, there was the BSA Beagle (Starlite in the US).

Seeing that the Japanese were having huge success with their small capacity Hondas, Suzukis and Yamahas  it was decided that BSA should get in on the act. Edward Turner came up with a 75cc 4-stroke single based on the Triumph Tiger Cub design, (as is obvious from the picture), which was also used in 50cc form in the equally disastrous Ariel Pixie.

The Beagle/Starlite had problems from the start, its chassis flexed a lot and could give riders cause for concern if pressed, lighting was via a flywheel magneto system and so at idle during night time lighting was almost non existent, rushed into production it suffered from early crankshaft failure, as well as oil starvation to the valve rockers, and priced the same as its Japanese competitors it didn't stand a chance. The only good thing was its 2 gallon (2.5 gal US) gas tank, (stolen directly from a BSA Bantam), which gave the machine a range of over 200 miles.  

The US dealerships didn't want the machine at all, and the British buying public didn't take to it much either. Production ran from 1964 to 1965!

The Ariel Pixie production run was slightly longer, but only by about 6 months, and sales were equally poor.

BSA, seeing their own approaching death throes, avoided responsibilities for any warranty work, of which there was plenty, which made dealerships reluctant to even work on the machines.


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[Fatfatboy]

Allred wrote

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It does look like very slow ride but I guess if you’re out looking for a grassy knoll to lay a blanket on and eat cold chicken speed is not of a concern.

Did the car have a brake?

[Fatfatboy]

Allred wrote;
“BSA, seeing their own approaching death throes, avoided responsibilities for any warranty work, of which there was plenty, which made dealerships reluctant to even work on the machines.”

Yeah,,, that instills confidence in a company.
“Let’s  push these undeveloped POS out the door to attract new riders and then ignore the call backs.
That will sell more bikes..,,,Right?”

I just watched a 23 minute video of the fall of BSA on YouTube. Management of BSA should of been hung then drawn and quartered. Not necessarily in that order.

Seems all they cared about was what filled their pockets at the time.
At the auction there were pieces of equipment from as early as 1906.
I wonder if their failure had anything to do with Harley Davidson’s turn around?

[Allred]

Fatfatboy wrote

Did the car have a brake?

Yes, sidecars had a drum brake on the sidecar wheel which was operated in unison with the motorcycle rear brake.

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[Allred]

Fatfatboy wrote

I just watched a 23 minute video of the fall of BSA on YouTube............Seems all they cared about was what filled their pockets at the time.

Another thing they did when the writing became visible on the wall was force dealerships to buy unwanted models. While the larger capacity models were popular and sold well, smaller, less desirable models weren't and didn't, and so dealerships didn't want to crowd their showroom floors with slow selling bikes like the Tiger Cub, or BSA D14 Bantams, or BSA Beagle, etc. but in order to move these models Triumph/BSA would insist that if a dealership wanted to purchase several 650cc and 500cc BSAs they had to take two Tiger Cubs, two Bantams and a Beagle. This often left the dealerships with all the profit from the fast selling larger capacity bikes languishing in the slow moving/unsold machines sitting on the showroom floor.

It has to be said that manufacturers like Honda sold their smaller capacity machines in multiple "packages", dealerships couldn't just buy one of the smaller models, but this was due to the way in which the machines were packaged for overseas shipping. If a dealership wanted a 50cc Honda Cub, they had to buy three of them because that was how they were packaged in a crate. The big difference being that the dealerships couldn't get the 50cc Honda Cubs fast enough and were only to pleased to order them in crates of three!


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[Fatfatboy]

Allred wrote

Yes, sidecars had a drum brake on the sidecar wheel which was operated in unison with the motorcycle rear brake.

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That is the only way to do it. I didn’t have a brake on my sidecar and it sucked!

[Fatfatboy]

Allred wrote

Another thing they did when the writing became visible on the wall was force dealerships to buy unwanted models. While the larger capacity models were popular and sold well, smaller, less desirable models weren't and didn't, and so dealerships didn't want to crowd their showroom floors with slow selling bikes like the Tiger Cub, or BSA D14 Bantams, or BSA Beagle, etc. but in order to move these models Triumph/BSA would insist that if a dealership wanted to purchase several 650cc and 500cc BSAs they had to take two Tiger Cubs, two Bantams and a Beagle. This often left the dealerships with all the profit from the fast selling larger capacity bikes languishing in the slow moving/unsold machines sitting on the showroom floor.

It has to be said that manufacturers like Honda sold their smaller capacity machines in multiple "packages", dealerships couldn't just buy one of the smaller models, but this was due to the way in which the machines were packaged for overseas shipping. If a dealership wanted a 50cc Honda Cub, they had to buy three of them because that was how they were packaged in a crate. The big difference being that the dealerships couldn't get the 50cc Honda Cubs fast enough and were only to pleased to order them in crates of three!


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Talk about biting the hand that feeds ya!

[Allred]

https://www.mecum.com/lots/LV0121-451643/1938-bsa-g14/?utm_source=R237.1&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=LV21

A very nice, original 1938 BSA G14, 1,000cc side valve(flat head) V-Twin, 4.5:1 compression ratio.


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[Fatfatboy]

So simplistic. So beautiful.
And a squeeze horn to boot.


I guess they just oiled the chain.

[Fatfatboy]

[Fatfatboy]

 Looking at that patch I have to wonder,,,, in the 60's did anyone think that they would see a day that BSA would no longer exist as a company.




Then I wonder the same about Harley.

[Allred]

I think that in the '60s it was Triumph that many saw as the main threat to BSA as leader in the industry.

The styling of Triumph across a range of 350cc-650cc machines just seemed so "modern" and BSA was looking a little staid. The styling of the BSA A50/A65 machines in 1963 was bold but didn't hit the spot.

In the mid '60s the Japanese machines were mainly 250cc and smaller, and predominantly two-strokes. In 1965 the Honda CB450 twin came as a shock to the industry (and the buying public) but it wasn't enough of a threat to the large capacity machines of the Big Three (Triumph/BSA/Norton) for them to clearly see the writing on the wall.

As has been written in the history books, in 1969 the Honda CB750 very clearly announced that the game was up, and no amount of cheap design scramblings like rubber mounting or three cylinders could compete with a machine that was decades ahead.

The arguments as to who was to blame continue to this day, but it's clear someone wasn't watching the store closely enough.

I think that in 1958 no one could have foreseen a time when BSA wasn't the industry leader.

In 1965 I think there were a lot of people who were detecting a change was in the air.

By 1968 many welcomed a long-awaited resurgence in the Norton Commando and Triumph and BSA triples. (despite reliability problems with all of them in early years)

In 1969 the curtain was drawn back and the reality was revealed, the game was up, the writing was on the wall in big bold letters. And three years later the Kawasaki 900 confirmed to even the the most doubting of Thomas's that it was all over.


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[m143]

This is a great thread.

Thanks.

[Fatfatboy]

I’ve heard the news awhile back that BSA was making a come back from an Indian company and they were going to build electric bikes. This had me mildly interested.

According to this article, though, they will be building ICE first and then when the time is right electric bikes will follow.
It also states the the bikes will be made in the UK.
Now I’m intrigued.
Good on them. I hope they sell a ton of them.  

https://roaddirt.tv/the-rebirth-of-bsa/

[oldironnow]

Regarding tomorrow's Harley through the lens of yesterday's BSA...

What does HD have going for it where BSA didn't?

Solid Reliability.
Evolutionary design process.

What else?

[motogrady]

oldironnow wrote

Regarding tomorrow's Harley through the lens of yesterday's BSA...

What does HD have going for it where BSA didn't?

Solid Reliability.
Evolutionary design process.

What else?

The Livewire?

Good question really.   They seem to have the reliable thing down.  They seem to have deep pockets.  
They have a rather loyal, to the point of being rabid, following.  A government that seems to back them,
when things get real tough.

Thing is, they also have a lot going against them.
So big, they are slow to react.  They seem to refuse to build anything but a v twin. They seem to be being led by a revolving door of leadership and vision.  They must have a hell of an overhead as far as
labor and regulations.

All of which I hope like heck they overcome.  

[Allred]

Just had to post these pics of a 1958 650cc BSA A10 Super Rocket.

A really nice, and obviously cared for, machine, that while having some "upgrades", looks to be basically a very unrestored example.

It has the chrome fenders and red side panels/oil tank (as opposed to the red fenders and black side panels/oil tank which were also available) I'm not sure which way I like the best!

The owner has fitted alloy wheel rims, of which I am not a fan (I think that is an ending preposition, which is not supposed to end a sentence, but hey if Churchill did it, so can I!) but I wholly agree with the fitting of a later twin-leading-shoe BSA/Triumph front brake.

The only other "upgrade" I can spot is a polished float bowl extension.

The bike retains the original "Burman" silencers (mufflers) which I definitely like to see on a bike like this.

Like most bikes of this era it has a manual choke, but also has manual advance and retard ignition.

The A10 had a dynamo (generator) and voltage regulator, not alternator, for the electrical charging system.

If you look closely you can even see the original manual hand pump next to the battery box/tool box on the left side of the machine.

The chromed handle at the top of the left-hand rear shock could be used by the passenger to hang on, but its true intention is to assist the rider in putting the bike on its center stand.

And of course it has that so-wonderfully-BSA device, the deflector under the carburetor to prevent any fuel leakage from dripping on the high-voltage magneto pickups and leads.


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[Allred]

A nice semi-original 1959 A10 BSA. Has lots of original looking patina, although the gas tank and side panels look to have had a re-paint, as well as a new-looking rear light bracket, and subsequently are missing original associated decals.

The yellow-colored 6volt/25watt headlight definitely looks original!!!!

Note the large steering damper adjuster located center-stage on the tripleclamp, normal fare on BSAs, Triumphs and Nortons of the day.

Someone has fitted a Amal Concentric, but at least it retains the ubiquitous gasoline deflector.

The video is courtesy of Brown Motorcycle Company, apparently a store in Japan specializing in Brit bikes.
http://brown-mc.jp/

Should whet FatFat's appetite a little?

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